Joe Horn: New Texas Law Covers Use of Deadly Force

Albert Einstein once said "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."

Yesterday DBKP wrote about Joe Horn, the Texas man who was cleared by the Harris County Grand Jury after he shot two illegal "immigrants" when they had broken into a neighbor's home in Pasadena TX in November. Horn's actions, that of a private citizen using deadly force against someone committing a felony, were covered by a new Texas statute, the Castle Law, or Senate Bill 378.

“Don’t go outside the house,” the 911 operator pleaded. “You’re going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don’t care what you think.”

“You want to make a bet?” Horn answered. “I’m going to kill them.”

Horn had called 911 to report that he had witnessed the two men break into his neighbor's home in broad daylight. Horn, whose conversation was taped, ignored the operator's order to remain inside his home. The tape picked up the sounds of Horn "confronting" the two men as they left the house and headed for the street:

“Move,” Horn can be heard saying on the tape. “You’re dead.”

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

The two men died from gunshot wounds in the back while the whole incident was witnessed by a plainclothes detective who had just pulled up to the curb in front of Horn's residence. The detective stated that he had "ducked" under the steering wheel of his car when he saw Horn shoot the men for fear that Horn might mistakenly shoot him as the "wheel man".

“I had no choice,” he said, his voice shaking. “They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick.” [1]

Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, said his client was attempting to "gather evidence" for the cops. What's interesting about Horn's case is that the Texas legislature signed a new bill in 2007 that applied to Horn's dilemna. The Castle Law, signed by Texas Govenor Rick Perry last March, went into effect on the first of September. Less than three months later this law protected Horn from prosecution and civil litigation for using deadly force as a private citizen.

“The right to defend oneself from an imminent act of harm should not only be clearly defined in Texas law, but is intuitive to human nature,” said Gov. Perry. “Today, I am proud to sign the Castle Law which allows Texans to not only protect themselves from criminals, but to receive the protection of state law when circumstances dictate that they use deadly force."

The Castle Law, or Senate Bill 378, extends a person's right in the state of Texas to use "reasonable" deadly force when an intruder commits "certain crimes" such as attempted murder or murder, attempted sexual assault or assault, unlawfully trying to enter a protected place, such as one's home, workplace, or car, or when someone is attempting to "remove someone from a protected place". The law also protects citizens from civil litigation.

Because homicide and murder have no statute of limitations. Under Texas law if a grand jury returns a "no-bill" (no indictment) a future district attorney would be prohibited from reopening the case unless there were new evidence. This protects people from being indicted by any politically ambitious but uncscrupulous prosecutor like a Spitzer reopening a case for no reason other than noteriety and self promotion. Also, the "no-bill" will protect Mr. Horn from civil suits along with the new "castle doctrine" law that became effective last year. Source - Paleo Conservative, Free Republic

Horn's actions, shooting two men in broad daylight in the back while they were leaving a neighbor's house they had just broken into, were covered by this new law.

Read more of Joe Horn Covered by New Texas Deadly Force Law at DBKP.com

By LBG

Hat Tip: Paleo Conservative, Free Republic
Hat Tip: Einstein quote - Alligator, Free Republic

Source - DBKP - Joe Horn Cleared by Harris County Grand Jury
Source - Texas Govenor's Office - Castle Law
Source - Texas Department of Public Safety
Source - DBKP - Joe Horn: Man Who Shot Two Burglars in the Back
Image - Vigilante

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Joe Horn: Grand Jury Declines to Press Charges

Joe Horn, the infamous neighbor in Pasadena TX who shot two suspected burglars in the back in broad daylight last November, has been cleared by a Texas Grand Jury.

According to the Houston Chronicle, Horn "confronted" two men who had allegedly broken into a neighbor's house. Horn had called 911 where his conversation with the operator had been taped:

“Move,” Horn can be heard saying on the tape. “You’re dead.”

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he’d done.

“I had no choice,” he said, his voice shaking. “They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick.” [1]

The two men were here in the country illegally, one of them had spent time in an American prison for dealing coke and then was deported back to Columbia in 1999.

Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, claims his client was "gathering evidence for the police department" when he went outside with a 12-gauge shotgun, despite the 911 operator repeatedly telling him to stay inside. Lambright also said the incident had affected his client's life, but probably not as much as the lives of the two men who were mowed down in Horn's front yard.

Horn claims he warned the men to "freeze" and then had to shoot them. But were the two really a threat when he shot the two in the back, killing both men?

A Pasadena plainsclothes detective had arrived on the scene moments before Horn "confronted" the two men as they left his neighbor's house heading for the street. The detective said the "confrontation" was over in "seconds" and that he was afraid Horn was going to mistake him for the "wheel" man and shoot him too.

After the two men were shot dead by Horn, their only crime, allegedly breaking and entering his neighbor's home while the neighbor was away, the debate centered over whether Horn should be charged for using deadly force.

The Harris County Grand Jury held hearings for a two week period before finally ruling today that Horn should not face any charges.

By LBG


Source - Houston Chronicle - Joe Horn cleared by grand jury in Pasadena shootings
Source - DBKP - Joe Horn: Two Dead Men Tell No Tales
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Joe Horn: Dead Men Tell No Tales

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick." [1]

Pasadena Capt. A.H. "Bud" Corbett said both men were shot in the back. [2]

It boils down to "choices" and "versions" of the truth.

What "choices" did Joe Horn have on that day, the day he shot two men to death in the front yard of his neighbor's home?

I had no choice.

Was it true, that Joe "had no choice?"

Joe refused to answers any questions from the Houston Chronicle reporter instead relying on his lawyer, family, and friends to describe what kind of guy Joe is and to tell his "side" of what happened. The 911 tape tells another side, not unlike the great 1950 Japanese movie, Rashomon where a crime is committed and then retold from differing points of view.

There's Joe's attorney's version, the police version, the autopsy which showed the two men were shot in the back and the 911 tape, the version of Joe speaking with the operator.

From today's Houston Chronicle:

To his grandchildren, the 61-year-old Pasadena homeowner is simply "Papa Joe."

To longtime friends, Joe Horn is an "average Joe" who leads a rather quiet, dull life as a retired communications computer manager on the outskirts of Houston.

But since being catapulted into a national debate for fatally shooting two men he says were burglarizing the house next door, Horn is called everything from a "hero" to a "murdering vigilante."

The reporter goes on to write about Horn's concern for his family:

"(The shooting) has been devastating on my family," Horn wrote. "Words cannot describe how bad this has been."

Horn, who had been letting his attorney and personal friend of four decades speak for him, added, "It has caused untold grief on all of us. I feel for my daughter and grandchildren."

What was mentioned in the Chronicle piece about the two dead men:

Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, collapsed and died not far from Horn's house. Both were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia with Houston addresses. Torres was sent to prison for dealing cocaine and was deported in 1999.

No word from the men's families, how, perhaps any devastation they might be suffering.

More from the Chronicle:

The last time Horn shot an animal was 30 years ago when he bagged a "huge bull elk" in Idaho.

"After this hunt, I lost all my desire to kill any more animals," Horn said in his written comments. "I went hunting a few more times but I was no longer interested."

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them." [1]

More on Joe Horn in the Houston Chronicle:

What he never expected was that his quiet, private life would end the day he intervened in the burglary of the house next door.

The doting grandfather now needs a press agent to handle the nonstop requests for appearances and interviews with media outlets across the country, his friends say.

Horn has never taken into custody. Hasn't been charged with a crime. In Texas the law says one has the right to "protect a neighbor's property."

Joe Owmby, who heads the Harris County district attorney's police integrity division, explained that Texas law allows "wide latitude for individuals to protect themselves, but not as much if they're not threatened." [2]

From the 9/11 tape:

Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them." [1]

Joe's attorney's version of that fateful day:

Lambright insists Horn feared for his life. After the 911 dispatcher asked for more information on the burglars, Horn left his house to see what was happening and to possibly get a glimpse of the burglars' car or license plate, Lambright said.

"He went outside and all of a sudden there they were," Lambright said. "And Horn tells them 'move and you're dead.' The suspects have a shotgun aimed at them and their response was to run at Joe and he panicked." [2]

More from Joe's attorney on Joe:

"He's quite a boring guy, really," Lambright said. "He's gotten fat, lazy and old. [2]

Joe Horn, 61-year-old "retired old, fat, doting grandpa" who's life is forever changed.

The 911 tape:

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking.

Joe did have a choice. Joe was advised by 911 to stay in his house.

The 911 tape:

Joe Horn: "I'm going to kill them."

"Retired Grandpa" Joe says his life is now devastated.

The two men that Joe shot dead? It's safe to say those guys are lives are "devastated" too.

Joe's case hasn't gone before a Grand Jury. Joe has not been charged with a crime. Joe's attorney and the press paint Joe as a good guy caught in a bad situation.

Is part of the bad situation Joe has gotten into due to Joe's decision to leave his house?

Would a Grand Jury sort out what "choices" Joe had and which "version" of the truth applies?

Would, in the end, a Grand Jury "choose" that Joe Horn's right to protect his neighbor's property outweighs the lives of two men?

By LBG
Image [adorocinema.com]
Source - 1 - DBKP - Shot Burglars in the Back
Source - 2 - Houston Chronicle


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Joe Horn, Burglar Killer, Receives Death Threat

Sixty-one-year old Joe Horn of Pasadena, Texas received a death threat via the Harris County District Attorney's Office over the weekend.

Horn,who allegedly shot and killed two illegal immigrants suspected of burglarizing the house next door, hasn't been charged with any crime while the Pasadena police investigate the incident.

The threat against Horn was recorded on a voice mail at the Harris County District Attorney's Office:

Pasadena Police Department spokesperson Vance Mitchell said the message was recorded on a phone in the office of the DA's Public Integrity Division at around 1:50 p.m. Sunday.

The recording was released Monday.

It features a male voice demanding prosecution against Horn and warning about the computer consultant's death if such action is not taken.

"Do not worry about my name," said the caller. "What you better do, you better indict Joe Horn. You better find him guilty. If you do not, somebody is going to kill him, and if he goes to prison, he is going to be killed on the inside. They are waiting for him in prison, and we are waiting on him in prison."

The caller proceeded on an expletive-tinged rant about race.

Pasadena police is looking into the case, said Capt. A.H. Corbett.[1]

Horn had called 911 reporting the two men had broken into his neighbor's house.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

Horn claims the two men were "10 to 12 feet from him in his yard" and that they "lunged at him."

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick." [2]

The shootings occurred almost a month ago in a quiet Pasadena, Texas neighborhood. So far no charges have been filed in the incident. It was reported that Horn has left the area. It was also recently reported that a Pasadena plainclothes detective witnessed the shootings and that Horn had shot each man in the back.

From the Houston Chronicle:

Corbett said the plainclothes detective, whose name has not been released, had parked in front of Horn's house in response to the 911 call. He saw the men between Horn's house and his neighbor's before they crossed into Horn's front yard.

Corbett believes neither Horn nor the men knew a police officer was present.

"It was over within seconds. The detective never had time to say anything before the shots were fired," Corbett said. "At first, the officer was assessing the situation. Then he was worried Horn might mistake him for the 'wheel man' (get-away driver). He ducked at one point."

When Horn confronted the suspects in his yard, he raised his shotgun to his shoulder, Corbett said. However the men ignored his order to freeze.

Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.

"The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted," said Corbett. "Horn said he felt in jeopardy."

Neither of the deceased carried a gun but one of the men had a six inch punch, considered to be a deadly weapon, in his back pocket.

Pasadena Riot Police at Joe Horn Protest [Image - KHOU]

Houston's KHOU reported on December 3rd about protests held in the neighborhood. Activist Quanell and his followers were going to meet in 7400 block of Timberline to protest at 3p.m.. They were met by a larger group of Joe Horn supporters. According to reporters the two groups broke out into pushing and shoving while the pro-Joe Horn shouted racial slurs.

“We have a right to bear arms, and we’re not afraid to use it. So criminals in Texas, watch out!” protester Jenni Foster said.

Quanell and his group returned to the neighborhood.

“From the very beginning, we said that what the two brothers did was wrong. We don’t condone breaking into somebody’s house. But we are here today because we believe that it’s not right for anyone to become judge, jury and executioner, “ Quanell said, speaking into a bullhorn over angry shouts from the crowd.

“It’s a matter of justice. It’s a matter of fairness. It’s a matter of respecting the law,” he said.

On Tuesday the Pasadena City Council unanimously passed an ordinance prohibiting protests in front of single family dwellings. The council has to vote two more times on the ordinance to make it official.

Two men are dead, shot in the back, the shooter maintaining he had the right to defend his neighbor's property with lethal force.

Sixty-one-year old Joe Horn, the Law told him to stay in his house but the Law also told him he had the right to defend his neighbor's property. Which Law will Joe have to answer to?

Source - The Pasadena Citizen - Suspected shooter receives death threat
Source - 2 - DBKP - Joe Horn: Shot Burglars in the Back

By LGB
Image [allposters.com]



Back to Front Page.

Joe Horn: Man Who Shot Two Burglars in the Back

When we first wrote about Joe Horn on November 27 the debate was whether Horn's actions in killing two men who had just broken into his neighbor's house in broad daylight was being either the good neighbor, protecting property or a case of cold blooded vigilantism.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

Horn claims the two men were "10 to 12 feet from him in his yard" and that they "lunged at him."

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick." [1]

Now comes word from the Pasadena, Texas police. Horn shot the two men in the back and the incident was witnessed by a plainclothes detective.

From the Houston Chronicle:

Corbett said the plainclothes detective, whose name has not been released, had parked in front of Horn's house in response to the 911 call. He saw the men between Horn's house and his neighbor's before they crossed into Horn's front yard.

Corbett believes neither Horn nor the men knew a police officer was present.

"It was over within seconds. The detective never had time to say anything before the shots were fired," Corbett said. "At first, the officer was assessing the situation. Then he was worried Horn might mistake him for the 'wheel man' (get-away driver). He ducked at one point."

When Horn confronted the suspects in his yard, he raised his shotgun to his shoulder, Corbett said. However the men ignored his order to freeze.

Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.

"The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted," said Corbett. "Horn said he felt in jeopardy."[1]

Neither of the deceased carried a gun.

Neither suspect was armed, but one had a "center punch," a 6-inch pointed metal tool, in his pocket that might be used as a weapon, authorities said.

Also, they were carrying a sack filled with more than $2,000 in cash and assorted jewelry believed taken in the burglary, police said. [1]

Horn mentioned to the cop the new state law that allows homeowners to protect their property. Horn was not arrested, so far no charges have been filed.

"This case is a little different," Corbett said. "We'll have to let the grand jury sort this one out."[1]

Both were illegal immigrants from Colombia, authorities said. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after serving time for possession with intent to distribute cocaine. Both were also using fake identification cards and aliases, and their backgrounds are now being scrutinized by federal authorities to determine if they were part of a Colombian fake ID and burglary ring, authorities said. [1]

A Civil Rights Activist, Quanell X has called for the Texas Rangers or FBI to investigate this case.

"I don't trust the Pasadena Police Department," he said. "Why are they just now releasing the fact that an undercover officer witnessed the whole thing? This case stinks."[1]

It is interesting that a plainclothes cop witnessed the whole incident but the police didn't mention this fact until later. Horn claims he had the right to protect his property but to some his neighbor's house is not exactly "Horn's property." Then the matter of shooting unarmed men in the back in broad daylight.

Just what does protection of property constitute? Where are the limits?

What was Joe Horn, good guy or a trigger happy vigilante?


Source - 1 - DBKP - Joe Horn: Cold Blooded Killer or Good Neighbor?

By LBG
Image [Roy_Budd-Vigilante]




Back to Front Page.

Joe Horn: Cold Blooded Killer or Good Neighbor?

Two men are shot dead, their crime, breaking and entering a house in broad daylight. Their weapon, a crowbar, their sentence, meted out by sixty one-year-old neighbor Joe Horn.

The debate: is Horn a cold blooded killer or a good neighbor?
Horn, 61, had phoned police when he saw two men break into his neighbor's suburban Houston home through a window in broad daylight. Now they were getting away with a bag of loot.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

Horn claims the two men were "10 to 12 feet from him in his yard" and that they "lunged at him."

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

Some might argue that Horn's statement, that he "had no choice" in killing the two men wasn't necessarily true. Horn could of remained in his own home as directed by the 911 operator. The men hadn't attempted to break into his house, he had already alerted the police to the situation.

Others maintain that Horn had a right to defend his neighbor's property.

Pasadena police were still investigating Monday and planned to present their findings to Harris County prosecutors within the next two weeks, police spokesman Vance Mitchell said. From there, it is expected to be presented to a grand jury. In the meantime, Horn remains uncharged.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed. In some cases, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbors' property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

Source - AP

This story will cause some debate.

Gun control advocates will point to Horn as a loose cannon and the two dead looters as proof of what happens when citizens own guns. There will be those who portray the neighbor as a vigilante, dispensing justice from the barrel of a gun.

On the other side, old-timers will side with Joe Horn, remembering how they were brought up that you stole a man's property at the risk of your life. They will mention that horse-thieves and cattle rustlers were hanged in the Old West.


In any case, we're going to follow the story of Joe Horn, the lone excitable, 61-year-old man and the two burglars crawling into his neighbor's house. It's one that is sure to spark discussions.

Was Joe Horn within his rights? Was death too severe a punishment for the burglars?


What do the readers think?

by LBG
notes: Mondoreb
Image: legendsofamerica.com]




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