Showing posts with label Ron Paul.. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Ron Paul.. Show all posts

Sunday, December 30, 2007

Ron Paul: Debates, Forums, Fox, NH and What We Know

Huh?


DBKP was going to publish a timeline later today on the Ron Paul situation at the New Hampshire forum/debate/brunch/luncheon/get-together on January 6th.

We have sifted through a ton of reports, blog postings, sources, phone calls, emails and comments. We'd first like to say "THANK YOU" to everyone who has attempted to help bring order to a confused state of affairs.

That being said, there are some inaccurate reports and postings out there. When trying to trace the source of these, it either is 1) the same sources repeating wrong or inaccurate information and linking back and forth to each other, or 2) reading information into what has actually been stated.

A third possible source of inaccuracy is the "friend told it a friend who heard it from a friend" syndrome. We have several emails which directly contradict each other, each claiming the same source as proof.

While checking to see if anything new and known has popped up--not recycled reports from somewhere else already checked--we came across this posting by William Westmiller on Nolan Chart.

We do not know William. But his report below is as accurate as we have been able to verify at this point in time. It may prove to contain errors, but we couldn't find any, based on what DBKP knows at this moment.

Let it be repeated: it is the best we have seen, based on WHAT WE CAN VERIFY at the moment.

We also noticed that Westmiller has taken some grief over this account. That's too bad. One thing that the story of Ron Paul and the New Hampshire event on January 6th seems to have revealed, at least to us: there are people who profess to be working for the good of the Ron Paul campaign effort who are more interested in bashing someone.

Today it happens to be Fox News.

It may be that Fox News needs to be bashed. But they cannot know that now. Whether or not it helps Ron Paul's cause seems secondary to these flamers. That's too bad.

That being said, the vast majority of people appear to be trying to find out what really happened before throwing any stones. That was encouraging to see. Over the long haul, any campaign is better served by optimism and hard work, rather than rage.

Okay, enough of the lecture: back to William's account. Here it is.

What?


There is NO NH DEBATE on January 6th. Ron Paul was NOT EXCLUDED. That event was canceled three weeks ago.

Ron WILL participate in the January 5th ABC/WMUR GOP debate in New Hampshire.

So, what happened?

Months ago, NH GOP chairman Fergus Cullen had been in touch with FoxNews about a possible forum on January 6th. He had even contacted all the GOP candidates to see whether they were available. However, plans for the ABC debate were finalized with all candidates early in December and Cullen "threw in the towel." See "OUTFOXED" in the NH Union Leader of December 16th.

At that time, Cullen had not received a response from Ron Paul, who had committed to a conflicting luncheon at the NH Liberty Forum at the same time.

Skip ahead to December 27th, when the Union Leader reported that all candidates had agreed to the ABC/WMUR debate and reporter Garry Rayno added a confusing paragraph about Giuliani finally agreeing to the (canceled) January 6th forum, which had already been converted into a simple state GOP brunch.


Huh?


Due to the timing of this article, there was no way to confirm who will or won't attend the brunch, but it is not a broadcast debate and has nothing to do with FoxNews. Nevertheless, a blog in Washington picked up the story, scrambled it and their "BHDC Staff" reported a list of the candidates who would be attending, which did not include Ron Paul (he hadn't officially confirmed, due to the conflict).

That story was picked up by the AP Newswire, which added some information that it had from a month earlier about the format being discussed.

Finally, the AP article was picked up by Lew Rockwell and passed along to DailyPaul.com, with all the errors intact. Of course, a firestorm ensued on all the Ron Paul nets before the information could be verified. Immediately, thousands of messages went to FoxNews and the NH GOP protesting the exclusion.

Unfortunately, the Ron Paul campaign didn't sort out the facts before sending out a news release blasting Fox for their "outrageous" conduct, even if they did note that the information had not been confirmed. From there, the report spread into dozens of blogs and news commentaries.

An unfortunate false alarm. Lesson: Fast news is sometimes "bad" news. Faux News is worthy of criticism for what they have done, not for what they haven't done. Look before you leap.




Update2: The New Hampshire GOP website makes no mention of any events on January 6th, but it does promote the NH Liberty Forum scheduled for January 5th, where Ron Paul will be speaking. I'm informed that the campaign was working with Forum sponsors and Cullen to accomodate any possible NHGOP event.
Fox News does mention the January 5th ABC debate on their schedule, but nothing in New Hampshire on January 6th.
There does appear to be some residual confusion about the GOPNH brunch on the 6th, which may occur, where some candidates may attend, and which Fox may cover as a news item, but it certainly isn't a live, broadcast debate or forum. Those questions probably won't be answered until after the New Year. Best wishes to all, particularly Ron Paul.


Update 3: If you believe there is an error in my report, please provide a link.

There is sure to be hard news and information on several aspects of this today. Until those come out and can be confirmed, I think the above account will serve as our timeline.

And remember tomorrow night to have a Happy New Year!

by Mondoreb
[image:istock; bayareacommunity; ecsd; howard saunders]
Source:
* Ron Paul NOT excluded from NH Debate
* Ron Paul: Excluded by NH GOP, Not Fox
* Rumors of Fox Dissing Ron Paul Untrue

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Death by 1000 Papercuts Front Page.

Saturday, December 29, 2007

Ron Paul: NH GOP is Excluding Paul; Not Fox

DBKP Can Find NO Confirmation at the moment

After Calls to the Paul Campaign,
Fox News and NH GOP,Paul's Exclusion
Remains classified as a "RUMOR"at This Moment


Has Ron Paul Really Been Excluded From
the Republican Debate on Fox News?

Rumor or News?


UPDATE!
7:11 pm


OK, We found the AP story in question and it answered some of our questions, while raising others.

The New Hampshire Republican Party is holding a forum for Republican candidates a day after the ABC debates. Although it will be broadcast on Fox News, the Forum is sponsored by the New Hampshire GOP.

As such, they can invite or not invite who they wish. That is their right.

It is also the right of the Ron Paul supporters to voice their disapproval or approval of this move to the New Hampshire GOP. But, be forewarned, it doesn't seem like they are much interested in listening.

At this moment, to blame Fox News for who the New Hampshire Republican Party invites to the New Hampshire Republican Party Forum would seem to be a misplacing of responsibility.

We say let the blame or credit for this move be placed squarely where it belongs: the New Hampshire Republican Party. Fox News is merely broadcasting the event as something newsworthy.

The reader can agree or disagree with this assessment, but the fact remains, if the New Hampshire Republican Party had invited Ron Paul, he would have appeared on Fox.

* UPDATE 7:40 pm - From USA Daily: "We have verified from [Paul campaign spokesman] Jesse Benton that the NH GOP has confirmed Paul's exclusion and they said it was Fox's decision." This occurred in the last 10 minutes.

Ron Paul Excluded from Fox News Forum

Again, we ask the question: It was the New Hampshire GOP who issued the invitations, according to the original AP report.

IF they had invited Ron Paul, then Fox News would have not put the camera on him?

Is this a case of both parties pointing fingers at each other?

Whatever the case, is this decision set in stone?

We await further details.

UPDATE: 8:15 pm Dec 29, 2007


* We have all the details, conflicting statements, finger-pointing, rumors, phone calls, press reports, press releases and emails we think we're going to get until Sunday. We will publish a timeline for the entire affair tomorrow: after we sleep on it all.

We hope we've provided enough information for readers to make up their minds or at least form an opinion until new, verifiable info is available then. In the meantime:

Whew! We're tired!



After seeing numerous stories pop up in the last hour about Fox News excluding Ron Paul from the Fox News debates, DBKP decided to check on it.

Lew Rockwell, US Daily News and other Internet sites report that Fox News has excluded Paul from their debates; there's even a quote from the Boston Globe.
"They are scared of me and don't want my message to get out, but it will," Paul said in an interview at a diner here. "They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."

As we type, we can find NO evidence that Ron Paul has been excluded. The Paul quote has been cited as evidence of the exclusion, but Paul was responding to a question.

Numerous Ron Paul websites and some news stories all have appeared, each citing an unsourced "AP story" that the Texas Congressman is going to be left out of the debate the week before New Hampshire.

The Ron Paul campaign press release asks the question about Paul exclusion from Fox and ends its headline with a "?".

One website, Nolan Chart, actually labeled their story as not being true, asking the question at the end, "Would Ron Paul supporters be surprised if it were?"

This may have been where the story originated.

DBKP called Fox News in New York and were told that no spokesman was available and that there was no one there that knew anything about the exclusion of Ron Paul.

We called the New Hampshire GOP Press Spokesman, Barney Keller, and were told,
"Talk to the Paul Campaign. I can't answer any of these questions. Thank you."

Andrew at the Ron Paul Campaign told us "We don't know anything either. We've heard the reports that Ron Paul, as well as Duncan Hunter, had been dropped by Fox, but we haven't been able to find out anything for sure right now. We're still trying."

This all occurred between 4 and 4:25 pm December 29, 2007.

The Paul campaign, RonPaul2008, also hasn't been able to confirm the AP story, which DBKP cannot find anywhere on the web or at the AP site itself.

Is this a rumor?

It's been speculated that someone at Fox News leaked the information, and the Paul campaign is aware of this, but because Fox has issued no statement, there is nothing to comment on officially.

Ron Paul himself has already been quoted as saying "Fox News is scared of me".

The question we have is where is the AP story referenced by the Ron Paul campaign press release?

And the New Hampshire GOP, which is also referenced, has no comment whatsoever and refers all questions back to the Paul campaign.

All we can say at 4:30 pm is that this is a rumor.

It may be a well-founded rumor, based on inside information or a leak, as one source speculated, from Fox that has not been verified.

Stay tuned. DBKP will try to run down what is exactly the scoop. But at this moment, this "news" remains a "rumor" to us.

by Mondoreb & Little Baby Ginn

UPDATE: 6:05 pm

* Still no sign of the unsourced cited AP report. Anyone having any info on this AP story, we'd love to hear from you.
* We have received an email from John in Tampa who says that after calling Fox Tampa,
I spoke with Andy after I asked to speak with someone who could answer questions about the upcoming Broadcast. Andy told me that it looks like Ron Paul was omitted from the debate and he would check to see if the omission was a typo or oversight.

We're trying to get this confirmed at Fox New York and Fox Tampa and find out who Andy is.
* We have emailed James Pindell, who wrote the story at the Boston Globe and asked, "What question did you ask Ron Paul that he responded with the quote in your story?"
We found it odd that this quote would appear while his campaign says, "We don't know...we're checking it out."
hat tip to John B.(not sure if you want your name published or not.)

* LBG's Latest: Rumors Ron Paul Dissed by Fox News Untrue

Sources:
* Press Release: Has Ron Paul Been Excluded by Fox?
* Paul: Fox News "Scared" of Me
* Fox News Confirms: No Need for Paul at Debate
* Fox News to Exclude Ron Paul from Debates?
* GOP Candidates to meet in NH forum
That story from AP is as follows.
The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary.

The forum, where the candidates will be questioned by Fox New Channel's Chris Wallace, will be held a day after ABC holds back to back Democratic and Republican presidential debates.

"Never underestimate New Hampshire voters' appetite for politics," said Fergus Cullen, the chairman of the state Republican Party.

Participating in the forum will be Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson.

Unlike a debate, the candidates will face questions from Wallace around a table in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H.. The 90-minute encounter will air live beginning at 8 p.m. ET on the Fox News Channel and on Fox News Radio.



The most that can be verified at the moment:
5:40 am December 30 2007

"Ron Paul: Debates, Forums, Fox, NH and What is Known"


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Death by 1000 Papercuts Front Page.

Thursday, October 11, 2007

Papercuts Poll Results:
Which Positions Held by Candidate
Ron Paul Do You Support?

Positions held by Ron Paul appear to be more popular than the candidate himself.

by Mondoreb

The latest Death by 1000 Papercuts poll results are in--and they are somewhat surprising. When given the chance to vote on the question, "Which political positions by Texas Congressman and Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul do you agree with?", respondents agreed with many of the choices.

The two most popular positions were, "Eliminate the I.R.S." and "Pull out of the United Nations", both favored by 62% of those polled.

Of the 14 choices offered, the one that proved the least popular was "None of the above", with 0%. Paul's regular poll figures have consistently showed his support at somewhere between 3-6%, depending on the poll. Internet and call-in polls are different, however. Some of those polls show that up 75% favor the doctor/Congressman, who ran for President in 1988 on the Libertarian Party ticket. Paul finished 3rd, but only polled 0.47% of the popular vote. He was the ballot in 46 states and the District of Columbia.

Which of the following positions of Ron Paul do you agree with?

1 Eliminate the IRS 62%
2 Pull out of the United Nations 62%
3 End the federal War on Drugs 55%
4 Use U.S. troops to guard Mexican border 55%
5 End most foreign aid. 48%
6 End Social Security 37%
7 Abolish FEMA 37%
8 Getting rid of the Department
of Homeland Security 33%
9 End of U.S. involvement with Iraq 29%
10 Overturn the Patriot Act 29%
11 Pull out of NATO 25%
12 End most International Trade Agreements 25%
13 All of the above 22%
14 None of the above. 0%

(Respondents could pick more than one choice.)


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