Showing posts with label debates. Show all posts
Showing posts with label debates. Show all posts

Sunday, December 30, 2007

Ron Paul and the Non-Debate: RP Supporters Not Kooks, One Guy Though...


DBKP Tries to Maintain a Reasoned Tone
Against One-Man Tidal Wave of Indignation

One-man Army [Name Changed to protect the innocent-well, sorta innocent, anyway]:
"But I was on the Phone!
I
Do Too Have a Phone!
But there WAS a debate!! I Know it!!

You're Fucking Me Here!!I Just Know It!!"


NOTE: 99% of Ron Paul supporters we come into contact with are regular, everyday people. When they write and email us, they are pleasant--passionate to be sure--but genuinely nice people.

That's one of the reasons we've never bashed Dr. Paul and his supporters: someone needs to attack the overweening nanny state and it's insane intrusion into more and more aspects of everyday life.

Ron Paul is a principled Libertarian who never misses an opportunity to attack an ever-growing federal government. We can't do anything but cheer for him on that issue.

We don't agree with Ron Paul on all of the issues. But we don't have to: we still wish him well, even if we're not working for his campaign.

But it only takes a few over-wrought supporters--apparently viciously abused during potty-training as a child--to alienate potential allies.

We have purposely not joined in the gratuitous Ron Paul bashing taking place in many venues because it seems to us a lot like hitting the double chocolate dessert buffet at Happy Wong's 'World's Biggest Asian Food Smorgasbord': it might feel good at the time, but you just have to work your ass off the next day to undo the damage.

Against our better judgment, we're gonna vent a little.

We made phone calls, fielded emails and generally spent yesterday chasing down the details of the supposed Fox News Debates that had excluded Ron Paul.

ORIGINALLY, we were going to write that we didn't see how this could benefit Fox, Republicans, or Ron Paul. When we first heard the exclusion, we were concerned: a viewpoint that should be heard more was going to be heard less.

In the course of writing the post, we suddenly had the thought: why can't we find anything out about this "Debate"?

Fox is in business to get publicity and viewers.
If they were holding such a high-profile event, why would they put it on double-secret probation?

So we stopped and started checking.

In the meantime, we started getting emails and comments, and saw 10 times the amount we got on other blogs and websites.

"Screw Fox! It's a conspiracy!"

NOW, this wasn't most RP supporters, just a couple. But those couple supporters were little armies-of-one.

We continued to check.

Mr. X Searches for More Evidence of Non-Existent Debate


Late last night ( or early this morning) we found a piece we thought summed up what we had been able to find out. All of its facts were checked and its tone was reasoned. It was by a Libertarian, to boot. It was a post by William Westmiller at Nolan Chart.

We then got a comment from a disgruntled RP supporter--Mr. X, by name.

After calling us 'morons' and telling us who he had talked to and his theories on everything from Ron Paul to how Vince McMahon planned on taking over Chippendales using a juiced-up combat team of pro wrestlers (kidding on the last one), Mr. X really got upset.

Right about then, we learned for sure what we had privately been saying most of yesterday and what we said when we put up William Westmiller's article: there was no debate.

It was a spoof by Big Head DC. AP got sucked in, as did tons of other people. When we were checking out BHDC's site, we saw what may have been a world record for consecutive comments on a post by the same person using his real name: Mr. X.

They started out reasonable enough and Mr. X, like us was asking for verification. But his tone soon changed and, like some of his buddies, he was sure that the conspiracy--any conspiracy--was out to get him.


Mr. X Gears Up for Next Big All-Nighter


NOW, we're not upset (anymore). As Mr. X himself said in one of his posts to us: he'd been up all night. Lack of sleep will impair anyone's judgment: ours included.

Chris's last post to us.
I just spoke to John Moody, Sen VP at Fox News, who implicitly acknowledged the existence of the forum.

Who do you claim to have spoken to in the last 12 days who said it was canceled?

We would have said "Try reading our stories, Grasshopper. There you will find the knowledge you seek."

But we're kinda tired too.

We aren't trying to make fun of Mr. X (Okay, okay, so we are. Sorry.), we're just saying when we were writing this, it occurred to us how many other people we spoke to that were pleasant and helpful.

Ron Paul has a lot of really nice supporters who believe in his message and work hard and donate their money to help him out.

They build 60-foot signs along Interstates, go to rallies, talk to people, put up blimps, wear crazy wigs and paint their faces, call in talk shows, write emails and relentlessly search the Internet for any news of an overly-neglected congressman with a principled Libertarian message: in short, what any candidate would love to see his supporters do.

We take issue with calling these thousands of mom and dads and ex-Marines and Boy Scout leaders "kooks". They aren't. They see Ron Paul as an antidote to a federal government that doesn't seem to know quite when and where to quit meddling in people's everyday lives.

We don't have to agree with Paul on every issue to appreciate a candidate that has galvanized everyday people into getting involved in the political process.

The same people who propose putting a voter's registration certificate in every box of Captain Crunch in order to cure voter apathy are--in some cases--the very same people who are dissing Ron Paul and the ordinary people who've decided to participate in the political process by supporting him.

Our advice and wishes:
1- Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, including DBKP.
We try hard, but we sometimes don't quite get things right. We 'fess up when that happens, though.
2- Don't use Ron Paul (or any candidate) to vent your spleen at your particular bogeyman. If you don't like Fox, bash him in your own name.
3- Ron Paul's supporters are not all kooks.
Ron Paul's raised, by our calculations, about $20 million dollars at $50 a clip. That's not one guy with a spambot. That's a lot of mom and pops and aunts and uncles.

And finally,
4- Mr. X, get some sleep.

by Mondoreb

[images:imagefile]

At 7:50 pm December 30, 2007

I shouldn't be hard on Mr. X. He was trying hard to run down the story and he was full of passion and got tired. I was tired too. When I get tired, I put up funny pix. If I ever get a chance to meet Mr. X--maybe at the Republican Convention--beer's on me (limit: 2).

Sources:
*Let's Put On our Thinking caps
* Ron Paul Was Not Excluded from Debate

* Ron Paul Supporters Not Kooks There was 1 Guy though...
* Ron Paul & New Hampshire: What is Known Now
* Ron Paul Excluded? No Debate, No Forum
* Rumors RP Dissed by Fox Untrue
* Ron Paul Blimp Parodies
* RON PAUL GREAT DEBATE MAP! *

Last Hope? Secret Nazi?
What do YOU think about Ron Paul?


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Saturday, December 29, 2007

Ron Paul: NH GOP is Excluding Paul; Not Fox

DBKP Can Find NO Confirmation at the moment

After Calls to the Paul Campaign,
Fox News and NH GOP,Paul's Exclusion
Remains classified as a "RUMOR"at This Moment


Has Ron Paul Really Been Excluded From
the Republican Debate on Fox News?

Rumor or News?


UPDATE!
7:11 pm


OK, We found the AP story in question and it answered some of our questions, while raising others.

The New Hampshire Republican Party is holding a forum for Republican candidates a day after the ABC debates. Although it will be broadcast on Fox News, the Forum is sponsored by the New Hampshire GOP.

As such, they can invite or not invite who they wish. That is their right.

It is also the right of the Ron Paul supporters to voice their disapproval or approval of this move to the New Hampshire GOP. But, be forewarned, it doesn't seem like they are much interested in listening.

At this moment, to blame Fox News for who the New Hampshire Republican Party invites to the New Hampshire Republican Party Forum would seem to be a misplacing of responsibility.

We say let the blame or credit for this move be placed squarely where it belongs: the New Hampshire Republican Party. Fox News is merely broadcasting the event as something newsworthy.

The reader can agree or disagree with this assessment, but the fact remains, if the New Hampshire Republican Party had invited Ron Paul, he would have appeared on Fox.

* UPDATE 7:40 pm - From USA Daily: "We have verified from [Paul campaign spokesman] Jesse Benton that the NH GOP has confirmed Paul's exclusion and they said it was Fox's decision." This occurred in the last 10 minutes.

Ron Paul Excluded from Fox News Forum

Again, we ask the question: It was the New Hampshire GOP who issued the invitations, according to the original AP report.

IF they had invited Ron Paul, then Fox News would have not put the camera on him?

Is this a case of both parties pointing fingers at each other?

Whatever the case, is this decision set in stone?

We await further details.

UPDATE: 8:15 pm Dec 29, 2007


* We have all the details, conflicting statements, finger-pointing, rumors, phone calls, press reports, press releases and emails we think we're going to get until Sunday. We will publish a timeline for the entire affair tomorrow: after we sleep on it all.

We hope we've provided enough information for readers to make up their minds or at least form an opinion until new, verifiable info is available then. In the meantime:

Whew! We're tired!



After seeing numerous stories pop up in the last hour about Fox News excluding Ron Paul from the Fox News debates, DBKP decided to check on it.

Lew Rockwell, US Daily News and other Internet sites report that Fox News has excluded Paul from their debates; there's even a quote from the Boston Globe.
"They are scared of me and don't want my message to get out, but it will," Paul said in an interview at a diner here. "They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."

As we type, we can find NO evidence that Ron Paul has been excluded. The Paul quote has been cited as evidence of the exclusion, but Paul was responding to a question.

Numerous Ron Paul websites and some news stories all have appeared, each citing an unsourced "AP story" that the Texas Congressman is going to be left out of the debate the week before New Hampshire.

The Ron Paul campaign press release asks the question about Paul exclusion from Fox and ends its headline with a "?".

One website, Nolan Chart, actually labeled their story as not being true, asking the question at the end, "Would Ron Paul supporters be surprised if it were?"

This may have been where the story originated.

DBKP called Fox News in New York and were told that no spokesman was available and that there was no one there that knew anything about the exclusion of Ron Paul.

We called the New Hampshire GOP Press Spokesman, Barney Keller, and were told,
"Talk to the Paul Campaign. I can't answer any of these questions. Thank you."

Andrew at the Ron Paul Campaign told us "We don't know anything either. We've heard the reports that Ron Paul, as well as Duncan Hunter, had been dropped by Fox, but we haven't been able to find out anything for sure right now. We're still trying."

This all occurred between 4 and 4:25 pm December 29, 2007.

The Paul campaign, RonPaul2008, also hasn't been able to confirm the AP story, which DBKP cannot find anywhere on the web or at the AP site itself.

Is this a rumor?

It's been speculated that someone at Fox News leaked the information, and the Paul campaign is aware of this, but because Fox has issued no statement, there is nothing to comment on officially.

Ron Paul himself has already been quoted as saying "Fox News is scared of me".

The question we have is where is the AP story referenced by the Ron Paul campaign press release?

And the New Hampshire GOP, which is also referenced, has no comment whatsoever and refers all questions back to the Paul campaign.

All we can say at 4:30 pm is that this is a rumor.

It may be a well-founded rumor, based on inside information or a leak, as one source speculated, from Fox that has not been verified.

Stay tuned. DBKP will try to run down what is exactly the scoop. But at this moment, this "news" remains a "rumor" to us.

by Mondoreb & Little Baby Ginn

UPDATE: 6:05 pm

* Still no sign of the unsourced cited AP report. Anyone having any info on this AP story, we'd love to hear from you.
* We have received an email from John in Tampa who says that after calling Fox Tampa,
I spoke with Andy after I asked to speak with someone who could answer questions about the upcoming Broadcast. Andy told me that it looks like Ron Paul was omitted from the debate and he would check to see if the omission was a typo or oversight.

We're trying to get this confirmed at Fox New York and Fox Tampa and find out who Andy is.
* We have emailed James Pindell, who wrote the story at the Boston Globe and asked, "What question did you ask Ron Paul that he responded with the quote in your story?"
We found it odd that this quote would appear while his campaign says, "We don't know...we're checking it out."
hat tip to John B.(not sure if you want your name published or not.)

* LBG's Latest: Rumors Ron Paul Dissed by Fox News Untrue

Sources:
* Press Release: Has Ron Paul Been Excluded by Fox?
* Paul: Fox News "Scared" of Me
* Fox News Confirms: No Need for Paul at Debate
* Fox News to Exclude Ron Paul from Debates?
* GOP Candidates to meet in NH forum
That story from AP is as follows.
The New Hampshire Republican Party is sponsoring a forum for Republican presidential candidates on Jan. 6, two days before the state's first-in-the-nation primary.

The forum, where the candidates will be questioned by Fox New Channel's Chris Wallace, will be held a day after ABC holds back to back Democratic and Republican presidential debates.

"Never underestimate New Hampshire voters' appetite for politics," said Fergus Cullen, the chairman of the state Republican Party.

Participating in the forum will be Rudy Giuliani, Mike Huckabee, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson.

Unlike a debate, the candidates will face questions from Wallace around a table in a studio on the campus of St. Anselm College in Goffstown, N.H.. The 90-minute encounter will air live beginning at 8 p.m. ET on the Fox News Channel and on Fox News Radio.



The most that can be verified at the moment:
5:40 am December 30 2007

"Ron Paul: Debates, Forums, Fox, NH and What is Known"


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Saturday, November 17, 2007

Democratic Debates:
All the Candidates the Same




Special Correspondent RidesAPaleHorse sent us back these unique views from the Dem debates in Las Vegas.

[graphics: RAPH]


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Friday, November 16, 2007

Ron Paul 30-second Video Contest



The Ron Paul campaign is looking for a few good videos. Well, one video to be exact, but the campaign is looking for a video to air during the CNN/Youtube Republican Debates on November 28.

Rules and details below. If you have any other questions, click on the link below.

Create a Ron Paul Video for the CNN/You Tube Debate
CNN has requested for the campaign to submit a 30 second ad to be used as a bumper when going in to commercial during the Nov 28 CNN/YouTube Debate. The national campaign has asked us, the Ron Paul Grassroots Supporters, to be the ones to develop the ad to be shown!
Please let everyone know as quickly as possible because we don't have much time! Here are the rules ... READ THESE VERY CAREFULLY:

1. Ad must be exactly 30 seconds; no more, no less.
2. Ad will be shown for the FIRST TIME EVER PUBLICLY during the debate. Any video uploaded to YouTube for public viewing or accidentally placed on the Internet will be disqualified.
3. Ad must be available in both NTSC-ready format (for TV viewing) and smaller YouTube-size for review.
4. NO copyright violations. Must use original music, video and images, or need to have permission. If permission received, documentation MUST be provided for review.
5. Ads will be sent to me no later than Friday, November 23 at 8:00 AM Eastern Time, no exceptions.
6. Upload the ad to YouTube in PRIVATE mode (make sure not to use public!), and share the ad with RonPaulAdCompetition *only*.

What happens after the ads are submitted?

* A group of marketing professionals will review the ads on Friday and narrow down to a group of 4-6.
* The final videos will be sent to the national campaign for their review on Saturday, November 24 at 12:00 AM (Midnight) Eastern Time.
* The national campaign will select one (1) video of the 4-6 finalists to send to CNN on Monday, November 26 at 5:00 PM Eastern Time.
* The selected ad will be shown during the CNN/YouTube debate on Nov. 28th!

Start rolling people it's time to make this happen! If you have questions email me at rp.ad.comp@gmail.com, or visit this Channel as updates occur.

-----------

SUBMISSION INSTRUCTIONS

1) Add RonPaulAdCompetiton as a YouTube friend.
2) Upload the video to YouTube in PRIVATE mode. Select RonPaulAdCompetition as the only member of your contact list to have access to view the video.
3) Send an email to RonPaulAdCompetition or rp.ad.comp@gmail.com stating your video's name, link and your YouTube username.
4) Complete these steps no later than 8AM on Friday, 11/23.
5) The video can be switched to PUBLIC mode no earlier than the morning of 11/29.

-----------

NOTE 1: CNN debate footage can be used. Footage of other debates (Fox, NBC) can be used if copyright permission is received. Anyone submitting a video with debate footage will need to demonstrate proof of permission. This is true of any copyright audio, video or images used.

Producers can use audio/video of existing RonPaul2008dotcom channel content, and of Ron Paul's Flickr account (www.flickr.com/ photos/ronpaul2008), but no high-quality versions are available. Make sure to give credit to the appropriate parties. See the "Update from the Campaign" bulletin below.

NOTE 2: Previously we had discussed about the need to have 4-6 seconds for the Federal Election Commission (FEC) required verbal disclaimer of "I'm Ron Paul and I approve of this message". No need to do so for this CNN version, just 30 full seconds to use.

I might suggest it would probably be a good idea to have 'RonPaul2008.com' displayed at some point during the video.

NOTE 3: The campaign has stated that any submitted video needs to be "significantly original to be considered". (In the email the word 'significantly' was italicized for emphasis.) Changing some animation, shuffling words, and changing phrases would not be considered a new video.
All the public will see will be the winner. It would be much more interesting to see ALL the videos submitted. And will the "Ron Paul Girl" enter? Surely.

Let the debates begin.

by Mondoreb & Little Baby Ginn

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Wednesday, November 7, 2007

Rudy Giuliani Vs. Ron Paul on 9/11:

The Entire Exchange



Rudy Giuliani vs. Ron Paul on 9/11. [video 4:34]

If you put up a Ron Paul video, you hear both sides, you read both sides--there seems to be no middle ground on Dr. Paul. No comments or emails are ever received which say "Oh, I don't know how I feel about Ron Paul".

I hear people swear by Ron Paul; I hear others swear at him.

So, putting up any video invites attacks, even though most posters are passionate, yet perfectly civil. We thought this video would be a good illustration of the "No Middle Ground About Ron Paul" Theory. It's the famous exchange between Paul and Rudy Giuliani at the South Carolina debate earlier this year. It's the entire exchange: most anti-Paul videos cut away at Giuliani's applause. The pro-Paul videos we've seen only show Ron Paul's answer to Rudy.

At 4:34, this is the entire back-and-forth between the two men. Your position on the issues will naturally affect who you think came out on top here.

You be the judge.

by Mondoreb

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Tuesday, November 6, 2007

Ron Paul Video: American Foreign Policy, Rudy Giuliani, U.S. Military, Iran's Nukes



Ron Paul's Foreign Policy: In the Nutshell, In his Own Words

The Four-Minute Ron Paul: Love Him or Hate Him

If you have heard others arguing about Republican candidate, Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX), you will likely hear two different extremes.

"Ron Paul is a the real deal American!"

"Ron Paul is a kook!"

Paul, a Republican with strong libertarian leanings is most controversial on issues of U.S. foreign policy. Most especially his stand on the War in Iraq. Dr. Paul--he is a medical doctor--wants to end U.S. involvement immediately and return American troops home. This stand has earned him supporters from both Left and Right.

It has also earned him condemnation, mostly from the center and right. There seems to be no middle ground.

On other issues, he has a less controversial image.

This video is a chance to hear the candidate in his own words, answering questions about U.S. foreign policy on a variety of topics. It's short (3:45) and sweet. It is Ron Paul's foreign policy views in the nutshell.

It is also Ron Paul in his own words. All killer, no filler. Other than the questions, no media interference or bias, either.

It covers 9/11, Iran, Rudy Giuliani, the Middle East and the U.S. military. You will either love this or hate it. But it is unedited and Paul in his own words.

You be the judge.

by Mondoreb

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