SF Zoo Tiger Attack: 30 Memorable Quotes

San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom announced that the city's Recreaction and Parks Department Commission will conduct a series of public hearing on the deadly tiger attack that occurred at the SF Zoo on Christmas Day.

The hearings will begin Friday.

After the hearings, the commission will make a set of recommendations to improve the agreement that allows a nonprofit to run the public zoo, the mayor said. Newsom also directed zoo and city officials to convene an industry peer review team to examine operational and safety protocols, and the city's emergency services department will add a seat on its disaster council for the zoo director.

To mark the SF Mayor's announcement, DBKP has gathered quotes on the tiger attack, from around the Internet and media.

30 quotes on the San Francisco Tiger Attack.

"The hearings should include a review, analysis and any recommendations to improve the lease and management agreement that determines how the zoo runs."
--Statement released by San Francisco Mayor, Gavin Newsom's office.

"When he mentioned that to management at the zoo, he was met with angry denials, that it was not dangerous, that there was no need for concern. He was especially concerned about the grotto walls."
--Dan Bacon, attorney for Lloyd Kraal, who was a maintenance supervisor at the San Francisco Zoo. Kraal filed a lawsuit against the SF Zoo, in which he says the zoo retaliated against him for complaining about the grottos.

"The San Francisco Zoo is a great zoo, it's an accredited AZA member in good standing, and it has our support during this difficult time."
--Statement released by the non-profit Association of Zoos and Aquariums defending its zoo members' self-policing policies. The AZA noted that the Christmas Day tiger attack is the only time in its 84-year history that an escaped zoo animal has killed a visitor.

"It was why we left. Their behavior was disturbing. They kept doing it."
--Zoo patron Jennifer Miller reported that she, her husband and children saw four young men at the big cat grottos and that three of the men were teasing the lions. Ms. Miller said that she called the zoo to report the obvious "taunting--after the attack occurred.

"My son was a wonderful kid."
--Marilza Sousa, the mother of a teenager mauled to death by an escaped tiger, who said she wants people to remember him for the way he lived, not for the frightful way he died.

"Like any other business organization, we provide the information that we're required to by law. As a private not-for-profit, we're not required to make reports or distribute that information."
--San Diego Zoo spokesman Ted Molter, commenting on the possible refusal to release information on animal attacks.

"Zoo goers should have a right to know such information."
-- Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, commenting on the possible refusal of zoos to release information on animal attacks.

"[Like] the fox guarding the hen house."
--California state assembly member Lloyd Levine, commenting on the zoo industry's current oversight system.

"[He was a] dancing, happy person" who would always greet her at the front door with a hug and a kiss.
-- Marilza Sousa, interviewed outside the viewing chapel.

"Its investigation has developed nothing that could be considered 'criminal in nature that would lead to charges against the survivors of the attack,' the Dhaliwal brothers."
--San Francisco police source.

"[H]ow this incident happened and what measures are needed to prevent this type of incident from occurring ever again."
--Letter sent today to Larry Martin, president of the city's Recreation and Parks Commission, by SF Mayor Gavin Newsom.

"When you see a tiger, it is always like a dream."
--Indian biologist Ullas Karanth

"[V]irtually impossible."
--Jack Hanna, the director emeritus of the Columbus Zoo, commenting on speculation that a rampaging tiger could have climbed or leaped out of its zoo enclosure in San Francisco. Hanna speculates that visitors could have been fooling around and might have taunted the animal. He says it's even possible they helped it get out, maybe by putting a board in the 20-foot moat surrounding the exhibit.

"He had seen instances where workers could see these tigers jumping almost up there."
--Dan Bacon, attorney for Lloyd Kraal, who was a maintenance supervisor at the San Francisco Zoo. Kraal filed a lawsuit against the SF Zoo, in which he says the zoo retaliated against him for complaining about the grottos.

"There was no way out through the door," Jenkins said. "The animal appears to have climbed or otherwise leaped out of the enclosure."
--The zoo's director of animal care and conservation, Robert Jenkins, could not explain how the 300-pound tiger escaped. The tiger's enclosure is surrounded by a 15-foot-wide moat and 20-foot-high walls, and the big cat did not leave through an open door, he said.




"Time will tell. For the dead guy and Tatiana, time is no longer a factor."
--DBKP's Little Baby Ginn, on how the tiger might have escaped.

"The idea you kill tigers for what tigers do is simply wrong. This is a human error. The tiger was flawless. Tigers are not dogs."
--pat commenting on DBKP story about the SF Zoo tiger attack.

"Are you suggesting they watch while a tiger eats a man alive? Perhaps they should have brought chairs and some popcorn."
--anonymous, commenting on the same story.

"Those cholos had it coming. It's the process of selection - nature weeding out the stupid and the weak. I checked the kid's myspace website and I'm willing to bet they were high. His last post from Christmas day said his mood was "high"."
--dencio commenting on the same DBKP tiger attack story.

"An empty vodka bottle was also found in a car used by Amritpal Dhaliwal, 19, and his brother, Kulbir, 23, on the day of the mauling, which left 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr. dead."

The discoveries could be an indication that the brothers may have taunted the 350-pound Siberian tiger before it leapt from its grotto."
--New York Post source.

"Splitting a bottle of vodka could have contributed to the youth's feeling "high"."
--DBKP source, commenting on reports that an empty vodka bottle was found in the youth's car after the attack.

"Look, we were lucky no one got killed. We should go over our emergency procedures and so forth out here."
--Zoo employee Lloyd Kraal, through his attorney Dan Bacon, to SF Zoo, after the December 2006 attack when trainer Lori Komejan was attacked by Tatiana, the same tiger involved in the fatal Christmas day mauling.

"The boys, especially the older one, were roaring at them. He was taunting them. They were trying to get that lion's attention. ... The lion was bristling, so I just said, 'Come on, let's get out of here' because my kids were disturbed by it."
--Zoo patron Jennifer Miller reported that she, her husband and children saw four young men at the big cat grottos and that three of the men were teasing the lions. Ms. Miller said that she called the zoo to report the obvious "taunting--after the attack occurred.

"Help make the zoo a safe environment," the signs state. "The magnificent animals in the zoo are wild and possess all their natural instincts. You are a guest in their home. Please remember they are sensitive and have feelings. PLEASE don't tap on glass, throw anything into exhibits, make excessive noise, tease or call out to them."
--New sign posted at San Francisco Zoo after it reopened.

"Tigers cannot read."
--DBKP's Little Baby Ginn

"Help make the zoo a safe environment. The weak animals who visit the zoo are wild and possess all their natural instincts. They are a guest in your home. Please remember they can be insensitive and unfeeling. PLEASE don't attack if they tap on glass, throw anything into exhibits, make excessive noise, tease or call out to you."
--Little Baby Ginn's suggested sign to be posted at SF Zoo.

"My son had his hands on the metal bar. All of a sudden, I saw the tiger leap over the moat, put a paw on the dirt (and hang on). I screamed and grabbed my son."
--Marian Roth-Cramer recalling the day she and her son, who was 4 or 5, visited the tiger exhibit in 1997.

"She always does that. She hates my guts."
--Unnamed SF Zoo keeper responding to a patron who was frightened when a tiger leaped over the moat at a small child in 1997.

"That's the way I want everybody to remember him. The way he was—a happy kid."
-- Marilza Sousa, interviewed outside the viewing chapel.

by Mondoreb
Sources:
* Deadly Attack at SF Zoo
* Zoo Walls only 20 Feet; Tigers Can Leap 30
* Tiger Debate Touched Off
* Tigers, Liquor and Slingshots: Bad Ideas
* Blaming the Victims
* City Will Hold Hearings on Tiger Attack
* SF Mayor to Hold Hearings on tiger attack
* Mourners Pay Respects to Victim of Tiger Attack
* Former employee files suit against SF Zoo
* U.S. Zoos' Self-Policing Policies Questioned





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SF Zoo Tiger Attack: Employees Called Victims "Crazy, On Drugs"

911 Dispatch records from the Christmas Day tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo reveal a pattern of malfeasance by zoo officials and employees. A pattern that emerged when the two victims, brothers Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal, first appeared at the zoo cafe, dazed, bleeding from wounds, and pleading for help.

Not only did zoo employees disbelieve the clearly injured one brother, records show the employees thought the two brothers were "crazy" and chose not to believe them. When the brothers tried to convince them a dangerous animal was on the loose and that their friend, 17-year-old Carlos Sousa, Jr., was critically injured and needed immediate medical attention, zoo employees chitchatted back and forth on walkie-talkies discussing the victim's mental health and wondered if they were "on drugs."

According to the 911 Dispatch records, when one of the two brothers called 911 from inside the zoo after a 300 pound Siberian tiger attacked them and a friend, paramedics were not allowed inside to treat the victims until the area was deemed "safe."

"It's a matter of life and death!" the young man shouts minutes into the call.

"I understand that, but at the same time we have to make sure the paramedics don't get chewed out, because if the paramedics get hurt then nobody's going to help you," the dispatcher replies.

Seconds later, the man shouts, "My brother's about to die out here!"

The 911 call came from either Paul or Kulbir Dhaliwal, though it wasn't immediately clear from the recordings which one.

While paramedics and the police tried to find out what had happened, zoo employees added to the confusion by not believing the two brothers' "tale," even though one had obvious scratch and bite wounds. Meanwhile, the tiger was out of its enclosure, stalking them, following the trail of blood from the one brother's wounds.

From the AP:

An unidentified male zoo employee who was on the opposite side of the tiger's enclosure from where the three friends were attacked called 911 at 5:05 p.m. to relay a report from a female zoo employee who encountered the frantic brothers outside a snack bar.

"I don't know if they are on drugs or not," the woman employee is overheard saying over a colleague's walkie-talkie. "They are screaming about an animal that has attacked them and there isn't an animal out. He is talking about a third person, but I don't see a third person."

Attempting to translate her remarks to a 911 dispatcher, the man said, "He was saying he was bitten by an animal, but there is no animal escaped so he could just be crazy."

The brothers had run to the zoo's cafe for safety, after the tiger, a 300 pound Siberian named Tatiana, had escaped her enclosure and attacked the young men. They watched as the tiger viciously mauled their friend, 17-year-old Carlos Sousa, Jr., who had jumped in to try to save Kulbir, the tiger's first victim.

From the 911 Dispatch tape:

Zoo personnel dispatch now say there are two males who the zoo [considers] 800 [police code for psychological impairment] . . . But one is in fact bleeding from the back of the head . . . at the Terrace Cafe.

It wasn't until five minutes into the first 911 call that the zoo employees "recognized" there was in fact, a tiger out among the general populace.

At 5:10 p.m., five minutes after the first 911 call was made, word reaches the male employee that an animal was loose. He starts telling other visitors that they must leave the grounds immediately.

"We have a code one. They say they have a tiger out," he told the dispatcher.

An attorney for the Dhaliwals stated that it was 30 minutes until after the two brothers first reported the attack that "help arrived."

Time for 17-year-old Carlos Sousa, Jr. had run out. His lifeless body was found near the entrance of the tiger grotto.

Police shot the tiger as it attempted to attack the other brother, Paul, after it had tracked the two brothers to the zoo cafe.

"Have the tiger blue on blue," the dispatch read, indicating a code for a potentially dangerous situation for officers. "Have tiger boom boom. . . . Cafe -- have tiger, on foot, attacking victim, blu on blu."

"Stop shooting," the log read, "have cat, shot cat."

Rather than take the time to do a thorough investigation of their own, zoo officials promptly pointed the finger of blame squarely at the victims, claiming "something had to have happened" and that, perhaps, the tiger had escaped with their help.

One "expert" proclaimed the tiger couldn't have gotten out of the zoo enclosure on its own, that the victims could have "put a board across the 15' foot moat" inside the enclosure. Zoo officials stated the wall was 20' tall, more than adequate to keep the tiger inside but had to recant the next day when it was revealed the walls of the tiger grotto were well below the standard "accepted" height of 18 foot, instead 12.5 foot tall.

To bolster the "blame the victims" strategy, the zoo's newly hired crisis-management specialist, Sam Singer, admitted to furthering a highly inflammatory false rumor, that slingshots had been found. On Tuesday, Singer stated he was just "passing along" the slingshot story.

A police spokesman told The Associated Press last week that investigators quickly dismissed the slingshot allegation as inaccurate.

Mark Geragos, the lawyer for the mauled survivors of the tiger attack, lambasted Singer's tactics as “an abomination” and threatened to sue for defamation.

“To be attacked by a tiger, number one, then to be attacked viciously by false and defamatory stuff is too much,” Geragos said. Source - DBKP

Many families take their children for an outing at the zoo, a place of wonder and discovery. There is an expectation that the zoo has the necessary safeguards in place to protect its visitors. In this instance, not only were those safeguards not in place, i.e., a wall too short to keep a 300 pound Siberian tiger inside its enclosure, but that employees were not adequately trained nor equipped to deal with the consequences when the animal made its escape.

Back in September the same tiger had managed to maim a zookeeper in the feeding area. The zoo spent $250,000 revamping this particular area but neglected to take into consideration the perimeter walls.

When the two young men ran up to the zoo cafe looking for help, for themselves, for their friend, who lay mortally wounded back at the tiger grotto, and to alert the zoo employees that a tiger was out there attacking people, they were met with disbelief and considered to be either crazy or on drugs. It wasn't until the tiger showed up at the cafe and attacked the other brother, and the body of Carlos Sousa, Jr., was found, was their story taken at face value.

Compounded with the unbelievable tactics of the zoo officials following the attack, a second "attack," an attack of false rumors and innuendo, reveals a pattern of egregious disrespect for those who visit the zoo. Not only are one's health and welfare at stake, but also potentially one's life, in the hands of those who, in the end, chose to blame the victims.

By LBG
Image - Noteworthyinnola
Source - Los Angeles Times - Tiger Mauling Victim's Pleas Recorded
Source - DBKP - Confusion, Chaos, During San Francisco Zoo Tiger Attack



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SF Zoo Tiger Attack: Officials Perpetuated Myth Victims to Blame

Since the deadly Christmas day tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo, misconceptions, false rumors, and blaming the victims are being replaced by cold, hard facts.

From the AP:

When questioned by reporters, Mollinedo gave an inaccurate figure for the wall's height, putting it at 18 feet. Then, two days after the attack, he acknowledged the wall was only 12½ feet – or 4 feet below the recommended national standard.

Instead of calling into the question of the height of the wall, Mollinedo insinuated that the three victims, 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr., and his friends, brothers Kulbir Dhaliwal, 23, and Paul Dhaliwal, 19, were "somehow" responsible:

At a news conference, Mollinedo suggested “something happened to provoke that tiger to leap out of her exhibit.”

To bolster the "blame the victims' strategy, the zoo's newly hired crisis-management specialist, Sam Singer, admitted to furthering a highly inflammatory false rumor, that slingshots had been found. On Tuesday, Singer stated he was just "passing along" the slingshot story.

A police spokesman told The Associated Press last week that investigators quickly dismissed the slingshot allegation as inaccurate.

Mark Geragos, the lawyer for the mauled survivors of the tiger attack, lambasted Singer's tactics as “an abomination” and threatened to sue for defamation.

“To be attacked by a tiger, number one, then to be attacked viciously by false and defamatory stuff is too much,” Geragos said.

The zoo's claim that "something had to have happened" to "make the tiger" climb or jump over its enclosure was bolstered by a report in the San Francisco Chronicle. A woman read of the tiger attack the next day and contacted the Chronicle.

In a San Francisco Chronicle article, zoo patron Jennifer Miller reported that she, her husband and children saw four young men at the big cat grottos and that three of the men were teasing the lions. Ms. Miller said that she called the zoo to report the obvious "taunting."

"The boys, especially the older one, were roaring at them. He was taunting them," the San Francisco woman said. "They were trying to get that lion's attention. ... The lion was bristling, so I just said, 'Come on, let's get out of here' because my kids were disturbed by it.

Miller called their behavior "disturbing."

Her family was looking at the lions when the young men stopped beside them at the big-cat grottos - five outdoor exhibits attached to the Lion House. The young men started roaring at the lions and acting "boisterous" to get their attention, said Miller, who added that she watched the four for five minutes or so a little after 4 p.m.

"It was why we left," she said. "Their behavior was disturbing. They kept doing it." Source DBKP: Blaming the Victims

We wondered why, if this woman thought the behavior of the young men, so "disturbing", she didn't immediately report them to zoo officials, while still at the zoo.

The San Francisco Mayor, Gavin Newsom, has stuck by Mollinedo even though a zookeeper was attacked back in September by the same tiger.

According to a story by UPI on September 7, the zoo had reopened its tiger and lion exhibit after spending $250,000 in safety upgrades to the "dining hall" area. A zookeeper filed a lawsuit alleging that better security could have prevented an attack by a Siberian tiger back in December.

The tiger severely injured Lori Komejan when it managed to tear away the tendon tissue on her right arm. DBKP - Horror at San Francisco Zoo

The zoo is also under attack by animal rights activists who accuse Mollinedo of "putting entertainment" over the animal's well-being.

“There just been a lack of respect for the animals to increase foot traffic,” Katz said. Mollinedo's crowd-pleasing initiatives, such as public feedings of big cats, have made them more aggressive, he said.

Warning Sign, SF Zoo, "Big Cat Feeding"

David Lee, another employee of the city of San Francisco, a recreation and parks commissioner, defended Mollinedo:

“The zoo is an old institution, very traditional, and some felt it hadn't changed much until Manuel came up,” Lee said. “He brought innovation, new ideas, and everyone benefited from that, people and animals.”

And yet, something so simple as raising the walls on the tiger grotto another four feet might have kept one man and one tiger alive. Especially after the same tiger's past record of attacking a zookeeper just a few months earlier. Now the city will most likely face substantial civil lawsuits from the victims and their families.

Instead of owning up to the truth, that the walls were deficient, Mr. Mollinedo and his cronies chose to blame a now dead 17-year-old boy whose throat was slashed by the tiger. A Siberian tiger, doing what all tigers do, shot dead. Two young men left to deal with lasting memories of the final seconds of their friend's life at the hands of tiger, in a place that was supposed to be safe.

By LBG
Image [Tiger]






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SF Zoo Tiger Attack: Tigers Shot in Dallas and Harlem

Bengal Tiger Shot in Dallas

Another Tiger in Harlem

Urban American Safari?

The deadly tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo a few days ago was a tragedy.

Another tragedy either occurred or was prevented on Christmas Day, depending upon your point of view.

This time it was in Dallas, TX.

The body of a female tiger was found shot to death near an apartment complex. Officials at the Dallas Zoo were notified and a veterinarian performed a necropsy on the tiger yesterday.

This reminded at least one person of the story of a tiger found in a Harlem apartment a little over 4 years ago.

You can read of the San Francisco Tiger attacks and the Dallas tiger elsewhere at DBKP.
* Deadly Tiger Attack at San Francisco Zoo
And you can read about the controversy over how high the zoo walls were and how high tigers can jump.
* Killer Tiger - San Fran Zoo Wall 12.5 Feet, Tigers Can Leap 30 Feet
And you can read about the full story about the tiger in Dallas
* Full Grown Bengal Tiger Found Shot to Death in Dallas

Here's the story of a tiger found in Harlem.

THE HARLEM TIGER

From CNN back in October of 2003.

A man who kept a 400- to 500-pound Bengal tiger and a 3-foot alligator as roommates in his Harlem apartment was in custody Sunday, charged with reckless endangerment, police said.

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said the tale began Wednesday, when police officers responded to a call of a dog bite at the 19-story public housing apartment building. They found Antoine Yates, 31, in the lobby, with injuries to his right arm and right leg that he told police had been caused by a pit bull, Kelly said.

Yates was taken to Harlem Hospital, where he was admitted for treatment.

Thursday, an anonymous caller told police that "someplace in the city, there was a large wild animal," Kelly said. "There was a large wild animal who was biting people."

The tipster called back Friday night, saying that the "wild animal" was at Yates' apartment, Kelly said.

When police returned Saturday to the apartment building to investigate, a resident told them the tenants included a tiger. Yates -- who had checked himself out of the hospital -- was nowhere to be found.

Police talked with a neighbor who said the man in the apartment owned a tiger. A fourth-floor resident complained that urine had seeped through her ceiling from Yates' apartment, Kelly said.

If you have ever complained about how tiny your NYC apartment is, think about the poor, poor 400 pound tiger cooped up in a Harlem apartment building. Police removed the 400 Bengal-Siberian tiger, Ming, from the apartment of Antoine Yates yesterday, calling in a police officer who needed to be rappelled down the building, in order to shoot the tiger with a tranquilizer gun. Also found in the apartment: A caiman alligator named Al. Officer Martin Duffy said the tiger charged at him, breaking the glass of the window: "I have to say I got a little nervous � I'm not going to lie." But he successfully darted Ming, who was later carried out by many people, from places like the NYPD, Bronx Zoo, Nassau County Society for the Prevention of Cruelty and Animals and the Center for Animal Care and Control.

FAST FACTS about the HARLEM TIGER - A neighbor complained to the Housing Authority about "tiger urine" leaking from Yates' apartment; the HA knew of the complaint, but claimed not to know it was from a tiger. [Daily News] - A second tiger, some bear cubs, two Rottweilers, rabbits and a tarantula also lived there at the time. [DN] - Ming was fed "a couple of chickens" - Officials are trying to figure out how Yates got a tiger cub in the first place. [Times] - Yates loves animals; brother Aaron: "He raised a healthy tiger. They should find him a job with animals." - Mayor Bloomberg: "Tigers are dangerous animals." - Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly: "This is clearly a first. This is an 'Only in New York' story." - Neighbor:"I think it's crazy for you to have something like that. This is not upstate; it's not a zoo.� [NY1] - Yates: "I am trying to create a Garden of Eden, something this world lacks." [NY Post]

Urbanized tigers aren't good for the tiger or the people they happen to meet on the street. What seems to be a good idea after a few beers down at the bar one night ("Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have a tiger on a leash?") isn't such a good idea after the beer quits talking.

Tragedy in San Francisco at a place where the tigers were authorized to be. Tragedy averted in Dallas and Harlem.

These aren't the only urbanized tigers in the U.S.A.

by Mondoreb
notes: Little Baby Ginn
[image:gothamist;logoi]

Sources:
* Tiger Found Shot to Death in Dallas
* Tiger, Gator Removed from Harlem Apartment
* Tiger, Tiger



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SF Zoo Tiger Attack: Tiger Debate Touched Off

How High Can a Tiger Leap?

Is Jumping and Leaping the Same?

Were the SF Zoo Visitors Under the Influence?

Should the Tigers Have been Shot?

Other Questions

USA Human Fatalities Caused by Tigers in Capitivity
During the Last Five Years

Tiger appears to be over 12 feet off the ground

Little Baby Ginn did a story about the San Francisco Zoo tiger attack a few days ago.

In the story, which was breaking at the time she wrote, the media was speculating about how the tigers at the San Francisco Zoo might have escaped.

There were reports of boards being tossed in to help the tigers, guesses about how the tigers may have been taunted, even that someone may have opened the door for the tigers.

Jack Hanna, noted animal "expert" said it was "virtually impossible" for the tigers to have leaped from the tiger enclosure. Like any expert, just when your words get their widest media exposure, that's when you'll most likely to be mistaken.

About the only theory that we didn't read in the media was that someone had slipped the tigers the key--and that one was floating around DBKP.

LBG quickly checked the references on tigers to discover that they could leap 30 feet. At that time, she could only find materials that stated the walls of the Tiger Enclosure at the SF Zoo were at most 20 feet.

Since that story, the zoo director has stated that the walls were only 12.5 feet high.

At any rate, a furious debate on tigers and their leaping abilities and whether a leap is different from a jump was set off in comments and emails.

One email pointed out: "Leaping is across...jumping is up".

Narniaman weighed in with the following.

Uh, don't they mean that the cats can do a 30 foot long jump, and not a 30 foot high jump?

Consider man. The world record for the long jump is nearly 30 feet, but the world record for the high jump is only about 8 feet.

Of course, if the moat is only 20 feet wide, it sounds like a Tiger could jump across that without difficulty.

Pat also had thoughts: not only on the tigers' leaping abilities, but on the loss of the tigers.

It has to be a long jump. Not a 30' high jump. But now we hear the wall is some 7.5' less high than originally claimed. And these idiots baited the tiger. Hard to anger a Tiger. She thought it was a game IMHO. Tigers play by batting. You move, it bats. It's bat is only matched by a bear. Mammalian man eaters= Tiger and a couple of bears. Other mammalian killers of man out of hand= the Hippo and Rhino (irritable bunch)

I have it on very good authority that leg dangling will attract sharks also.

I am pissed we lost a tiger because of a moonbat. this was a breeder too.

Dencio agreed and asked another question.

I agree, what a waste of a magnificent animal. They are an endagered species with only a few thousand left while the illegal immigrant population keeps growing by the millions. We should breed these Tigers to guard the border with mehico. And what about the Tiger's (Tatiana - yes she has a name) family? Has anyone cared whether she had cubs?

Pat had ideas on killing the tiger.

The idea you kill tigers for what tigers do is simply wrong. This is a human error. The tiger was flawless. Tigers are not dogs.

This prompted the following from "Anonymous", a sometimes-frequent poster in tiger debates.

Are you suggesting they watch while a tiger eats a man alive? Perhaps they should have brought chairs and some popcorn.

And then dencio leaped to pat's defense, mentioning something not found in other media accounts: were the SF Zoo visitors impaired on their outing?

Those cholos had it coming. It's the process of selection - nature weeding out the stupid and the weak. I checked the kid's myspace website and I'm willing to bet they were high. His last post from Christmas day said his mood was "high".

And so it went. There was much more, but you'll have to read the comments on the individual stories to get the full flavor.

The tiger attack set off a debate that covered many subjects and ideas and lead to the above picture being sent to us by someone who is still "anonymous" at this point.

Was it right to shoot the tigers?
Were the zoo visitors impaired?
Were the walls too short?

One suspects this is not the last we'll hear of tigers in America.

by Mondoreb
[image: forevertigers

DBKP Growing Library of Tiger Stories
* Tiger Shot in Dallas, Another Found in Harlem
* Deadly Tiger Attack at San Francisco Zoo
* Killer Tiger - San Fran Zoo Wall 12.5 Feet, Tigers Can Leap 30 Feet
* Full Grown Bengal Tiger Found Shot to Death in Dallas

UPDATE:

Human Fatalities Caused by Tigers in Captivity in the USA the Last Five Years YEAR/State - Relationship to tiger - Comments December 2007 - California - Visitor killed by a tiger who was out of her cage, while still on the SF Zoo property - Still under investigation as of 12/28/2007 April 2006 - Minnesota - USDA federally licensed private professional owner/trainer herself killed by her tiger - Occupational hazard. MN already has tough regulations on exotic animals-no risk to uninvolved public. August 2005 - Kansas - 17 year old visitor voluntarily on the property visiting federally licensed private professional USDA facility to have her picture taken with adult tiger which is against USDA rules. - Parents should also be held responsible. Parents sued Exhibitor lost his USDA license and KS enacted tough regulations compared by many to a ban. No risk to uninvolved public. December 2003 - North Carolina - 10 year boy old killed by his uncle’s pet tiger Parents should be also held responsible. Being killed by a tiger shouldn’t be treated any differently than death by accidents involving other activities. No risk to uninvolved public. April 2003 - Oklahoma - Tiger killed a handler at professional federally licensed USDA facility Occupational hazard–no risk to uninvolved public. March 2003 - Illinois - Man killed by his own tigers at his own federally licensed USDA facility Occupational hazard-no public risk. Illinois already heavily regulates private possession of ‘dangerous animals’.

For a complete listing, see Rexano's story and statistics: Human Fatalities Caused by Tigers in Captivity in the USA 2007-1990




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Confusion, Chaos During San Francisco Zoo Tiger Attack

According to the LA Times the scene where three young men were attacked by a Siberian tiger during a Christmas Day trip the San Francisco Zoo was chaotic and fraught with misinformation. The Times also notes that an investigation revealed that the tiger was "not intentionally let out." Another piece in the puzzle as to how a 350pd Siberian tiger escaped its enclosure to maul three young men, one fatally.

Seventeen pages of dispatch notes released from the San Francisco Police Department told a tale of confusion after zoo employees contacted 911 from the cafe where two brothers had run to escape from the Siberian tiger.

At 5:08pm:

"A very agitated male is claiming he was bitten by an animal," the cafe worker said.

The tiger attack began just outside what is known as the "Tiger Grotto." Seventeen-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr. and his two friends, brothers, 23-year-old Kulbir Dhaliwal and 19-year-old Paul Dhaliwal, were outside the tiger enclosure when the 350pd Siberian, Tatiana, attacked Kulbir.

Carlos and Paul yelled at the tiger who turned his attention to the 17-year-old Carlos, allowing the now injured Kulbir and Paul to escape.

For some reason the zoo personnel dispatch thought the two brothers were "psychologically impaired."

Zoo personnel dispatch now say there are two males who the zoo [considers] 800 [police code for psychological impairment] . . . But one is in fact bleeding from the back of the head . . . at the Terrace Cafe.

We wondered about the "psychologically impaired" label assigned to the two young men. Was there some issue as whether the zoo employees or the police did not believe their story, that the two men had been attacked by a tiger? In a zoo?

5:20 pm

"Located victim puncture hole to neck. Medics with him now."

According to the Times, minutes later the tiger was at the cafe mauling the other brother, Paul Dhaliwal.

"Have the tiger blue on blue," the dispatch read, indicating a code for a potentially dangerous situation for officers. "Have tiger boom boom. . . . Cafe -- have tiger, on foot, attacking victim, blu on blu."

5:28

"Stop shooting," the log read, "have cat, shot cat."

The tiger was now dead, both brothers mauled by the tiger. When authorities reached the tiger grotto they found the now lifeless body of Carlos.

There has been some speculation that the tiger was "taunted" by its victims or that the victims had played a role in the tiger's escape. Police Chief Heather Fong announced at a news conference they had found no evidence of the tiger being "intentionally released."

When the story first broke DBKP wrote a piece on a tiger's ability to leap up to 30ft. It was reported that the wall around the tiger grotto was 20ft tall plus a moat inside that was 15ft wide. This caused consternation among some of our commenters who argued this was an impossible feat for a tiger.



From the original DBKP piece: San Fran Zoo Wall 20 Ft. Tall: Tigers Can Leap up to 30 Feet

We decided to research how far tigers are known to be able to leap. From the American Museum of Natural History:

No animal fires our imaginations like the tiger -- and for good reason. Tigers are the largest of the big cats. They are incredibly powerful predators: Bengal tigers can bring down wild cattle weighing a ton or more. They are as agile as they are strong: tigers can leap more than 30 feet (9 m) in a single bound, climb trees, and swim for miles. And in their forest habitats, they can disappear in an instant, melting soundlessly into the brush. "When you see a tiger," says Indian biologist Ullas Karanth, "it is always like a dream."

Get your facts straight before you publish them please. A tiger can leap 30 feet in a straight line going forward, NOT 30 feet up into the air. I don't see how your math adds up to the tiger jumping over a 15 foot moat and then UP 20 feet. We need to be focusing here on the fact that tigers are a WILD animal and will act like one if provocked. We need to be using this horrible tragedy to help convince people that tigers are not pets as so many people believe they can be.
Angela | 12.26.07 - 8:59 pm | #

Some of the comments we received from this story:

Well, it seems to me that the math would be to figure the hypotenuse of a right triangle. If the tiger jumped, it was probably on the high ledge on the other side of the moat, which means 15ft across and (judging by the stairs going down into the moat) at least 10 ft up from the bottom. This means that the straight line distance of the jump was approximately the square root of the base (15^2) plus the jump height (10^2) or about 18 ft - well within the stated jumping distance.
Cameron | Homepage | 12.26.07 - 9:39 pm | #

Actually I worked this out much as Cameron did. The problem was the news photos and stories fail to show the derivative basis of measurement. The moat is 15'[ wide, but the Island is higher than the water surface. So is the 20' height from water or land? One makes it impossible, the other highly improbable. I did notice the moat high wall failed to have the curve in that is so common now. And the Tiger would need a running start. Cats do not think like that. The zoo would have found it in the drink a few times. BTW Tigers are excellent swimmers. No fear of water at all.
Pat | 12.26.07 - 11:29 pm | #

Here's some potential validation from the SF Chronicle:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar...7/MN39U4TQ5.DTL

Marian Roth-Cramer recalled the day she and her son, who was 4 or 5, visited the tiger exhibit in 1997.
"My son had his hands on the metal bar," said the San Francisco woman, a children's dance and family programs coordinator at a branch of the YMCA. "All of a sudden, I saw the tiger leap over the moat, put a paw on the dirt (and hang on). I screamed and grabbed my son."
The animal slid away. She turned to a zookeeper and asked if he'd seen what she had. His reply: "She always does that. She hates my guts."
Spamnot | Homepage | 12.27.07 - 3:25 am | #

Jack Hanna, wildlife expert, also weighed in, proclaiming it would be impossible for a tiger to get past the 15ft wide moat and then go over the zoo's 20ft wall. Hanna said that someone had to of "taunted" the Siberian tiger.

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - Animal expert Jack Hanna calls it "virtually impossible" for a rampaging tiger to have climbed or leaped out of its zoo enclosure in San Francisco. The director emeritus of the Columbus Zoo speculates that visitors could have been fooling around and might have taunted the animal. Hanna says it's even possible they helped it get out, maybe by putting a board in the 20-foot moat surrounding the exhibit.
Source - WTOL - Tiger Leap "Virtually Impossible"

After rampant speculation such as Hanna's where someone had to come to the zoo toting a 20ft long board to put across the moat and that the victims must of "taunted" the tiger and/or let it out it was revealed by the Zoo Director that the wall was only 12.5ft tall.

From the DBKP story: Killer Tiger at San Francisco Zoo: Wall only 12.5' Tall

Today from the AP:

San Francisco Zoo Director admits tiger wall was just 12 1/2 foot tall.

So let's do the math one more time:

Tigers can leap 30 feet. This according to the Museum of Natural History.

The San Francisco Zoo director admits the wall less than 13 foot tall.

13 feet versus 30 feet = tiger over the wall

The two brothers were released today from San Francisco General Hospital. According to the AP, Carlos suffered a deep slash to his throat after he tried to scare the tiger away from mauling it's first victim, Kulbir. Both brothers suffered severe bite and claw wounds. Source - AP - Brothers mauled by tiger now out of hospital

Hopefully details as to how the tiger managed to escape her grotto will be revealed. Our sympathies go to the family of Carlos, a very brave young man. And to the two Kulbir brothers.

By LBG
Image [Tiger on Wall]
Source - LA Times - New details of tiger attack released
Source - LA Times - Brothers mauled by tiger now out of hospital





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San Francisco Zoo Tiger Attack: Blaming the Victims

San Francisco Zoo

The current debate over the mauling of two brothers and fatal attack of 17-year-old young man by a Siberian tiger at the San Franciso Zoo is not whether the zoo's tiger grotto walls were high enough to keep a tiger inside its enclosure but whether the young men had "taunted" the tiger.

That this incident of purported "taunting" mitigates the zoo's responsibility to ensure the animals are unable to escape their exhibits and puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of the young men, one of whom is now dead.

In a San Francisco Chronicle article, zoo patron Jennifer Miller reported that she, her husband and children saw four young men at the big cat grottos and that three of the men were teasing the lions. Ms. Miller said that she called the zoo to report the obvious "taunting."

"The boys, especially the older one, were roaring at them. He was taunting them," the San Francisco woman said. "They were trying to get that lion's attention. ... The lion was bristling, so I just said, 'Come on, let's get out of here' because my kids were disturbed by it.

Miller called their behavior "disturbing."

Her family was looking at the lions when the young men stopped beside them at the big-cat grottos - five outdoor exhibits attached to the Lion House. The young men started roaring at the lions and acting "boisterous" to get their attention, said Miller, who added that she watched the four for five minutes or so a little after 4 p.m.

"It was why we left," she said. "Their behavior was disturbing. They kept doing it."

While we agree that "taunting" or "teasing" zoo animals is wrong we also believe the level of teasing, i.e., "roaring" at the tigers, doesn't rise to the level of relieving the zoo of its inherent responsibility. That of ensuring the animal's enclosures are built to withstand an animal trying to escape. The zoo's director stated that the walls of the tiger's grotto were only 12.5ft., well below the standard height of at "least" 16.5ft tall.

The zoo also plans to install signs which tell patrons they are "guests" in the animal's home.

Help make the zoo a safe environment," the signs state. "The magnificent animals in the zoo are wild and possess all their natural instincts. You are a guest in their home. Please remember they are sensitive and have feelings. PLEASE don't tap on glass, throw anything into exhibits, make excessive noise, tease or call out to them."

The animals kept in captivity might have a differing viewpoint. As for the "sensitive" and "have feelings," tigers are a carnivore and might feel like a patron snack every now and then.

Again, it is the zoo's responsibility to ensure that not only the animals are safe but also the patrons who visit.

People are known to taunt or tease the animals, that's why in just about every zoo across the country there are signs already posted.

A warning sign will never replace a wall built low enough for a 350 pound Siberian tiger to scale, whatever its "reasons" for doing so.

Tigers might be "sensitive" and "have feelings" but they are also carnivores and it's a myth that they are inherently safe unless you tease them.




If this little piece of "logic" were true then the same "logic" would have to be applied to an earlier attack in September by the same tiger. The victim, zookeeper Lori Komejan, was mauled by the tiger at feeding time. Was Lori "taunting" or "teasing" the tiger too?

According to a story by UPI on September 7, the zoo had reopened its tiger and lion exhibit after spending $250,000 in safety upgrades to the "dining hall" area. A zookeeper filed a lawsuit alleging that better security could have prevented an attack by a Siberian tiger back in December.

The tiger severely injured Lori Komejan when it managed to tear away the tendon tissue on her right arm. DBKP - Horror at San Francisco Zoo

Perhaps the zoo will put up a sign in the tiger's grotto:

Help make the zoo a safe environment. The weak animals who visit the zoo are wild and possess all their natural instincts. They are a guest in your home. Please remember they can be insensitive and unfeeling. PLEASE don't attack if they tap on glass, throw anything into exhibits, make excessive noise, tease or call out to you."

But then again, tigers cannot read.

By LBG
Hat Tip: Awa Puhi



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Slingshots, Liquor and Tigers: SF Zoo Expected to Discourage Similar Activities in Future

More Proof of a Bad Idea

Christmas won't be the same for Dhaliwal Brothers

Here kitty...

Another Christmas idea we'll see less of as time passes.

According to a source, the two surviving brothers injured in the San Francisco Zoo tiger attack had an empty vodka bottle in their car.

The News came from the New York Post.

What better way to get ready for a day at the zoo?

According to the Post, "An empty vodka bottle was also found in a car used by Amritpal Dhaliwal, 19, and his brother, Kulbir, 23, on the day of the mauling, which left 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr. dead, according to the source."

"The discoveries could be an indication that the brothers may have taunted the 350-pound Siberian tiger before it leapt from its grotto."

Taunting is never a good idea, whether babies or tigers.
Although cops and other authorities in the Christmas Day tiger attack have repeatedly stated that they believe no taunting of the tiger occurred, this latest news should cast some doubt on that thesis.

According to information obtained by DBKP, one of the brothers wrote on his MySpace page right before he left for the zoo that he was feeling "high".

According to other sources at DBKP, splitting a bottle of vodka could have contributed to the youth's feeling "high".

Just the thing for putting a spring in the step of a Siberian tiger.

So we have "high" teens, with vodka and slingshots,looking for something interesting to do on a Christmas Day. Plus one tiger wall that was several feet--by best estimates--too low to prevent a fully motivated tiger from leaping over it.

Sounds like a recipe for an attack at a zoo that left one teen dead and two others wounded.

The brothers have not commented since they left a hospital Saturday.

When the zoo opens tomorrow, the tigers will not be on display, as officials work to ensure that their enclosure is safe.

Tigers are more social if not taunted

Regardless of what happened during the attack and the subsequent closing of the tiger exhibit, the power of love cannot be stopped. The Post also reported that special arrangements were made to accommodate one couple.

"Meanwhile, an unidentified couple was allowed to hold their wedding at the zoo last night under tight security. Guests had to clear special checkpoints."

Like most weddings, we'd guess that there may have been after-wedding festivities.

Many such post-wedding activities feature alcoholic drinks, including vodka.

No word as to whether any of the wedding party had slingshots.

by Mondoreb
[image: protigil; photobucket; slingshotdepot; tabu-vodka]
Source: Tiger Brothers Had Slingshots





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Animal Library: DBKP Animal Stories, Wild and Otherwise

DBKP Wild Animal Library Included are DBKP stories on wild animals and other members of the animal kingdom. Stories are complete listing to the present. UPDATED: January 7, 2008 * Blaming the Victims * Tigers, Liquor and Slingshots: SF Zoo to Discourage in the Future * New Urban Neighbor: Giant Pythons * San Francisco Zoo Tiger Attack: Tiger Debate Touched Off * Tiger Shot in Dallas, Another Found in Harlem * Horror at the San Francisco Zoo * Deadly Tiger Attack at San Francisco Zoo * Killer Tiger - San Fran Zoo Wall 12.5 Feet, Tigers Can Leap 30 Feet * Full Grown Bengal Tiger Found Shot to Death in Dallas * Germany Not Laughing at Man Who Taught Dog Nazi Salute * PETA: Silence of the Lambs * Who Invited the Dog? * Aussie Sheep Rustler Caught in Electric Fence * Beast of Bolivia: Mystery Beast on the Loose * Greek Parrot in Traffic Court * Western Colorado Buck Tussle * Wolves Kill Canadian Man * Cat Optimistic After Grizzly Attack: Eight Lives Left * Paris Hilton's 'Celebrity Endorsement' For Boozing Elephants Pays Off * Militant Monkeys Run Amok: Pixelaneous #20 * Fergie and the Camel * Danger! Falling Cow Zone * Snakes on a Plane? Snakes in a Bathtub Earn Man World Record * Bambi's Revenge: Deer 1, Man 0 * More Fun Than a Barrel: Truckload of Monkeys Rolls Over * Lion Loose in West Virginia? Better Feel Sorry for the Lion * Contented Cows: Pixelaneous #14 * Polar Bears Ecstatic Over Getting Company * Animals Gone Wild: Pixelaneous Weekend #6 * Monsters of the Deep: Pixelaneous #5 * Lion Wipes Out 43 Midgets in Sold-Out Cambodian Match * Sharks Out of Water: Pixelaneous #3 * Watch Out For Dept: Hamsters on Viagra * Rat on the Right: El Senor Dictator * Airline Sacrifices Goats: Problem Fixed

compiled by Mondoreb
most stories by Little Baby Ginn
Source: Death by 1000 Papercuts





Death by 1000 Papercuts Front Page.

San Fran Zoo Wall 20 Ft. Tall: Tigers Can Leap up to 30 Feet

From today's AP:
The San Francisco Zoo remains closed, at least for one day after the fatal mauling by a tiger. The San Francisco Police consider the zoo a "crime scene" until they can piece together how Tatiana the Siberian tiger was able to escape her enclosure, fatally maul one man and injure two others.
Authorities are mystified as to how the tiger managed to get out of its habitat.

The zoo's director of animal care and conservation, Robert Jenkins, could not explain how the 300-pound tiger escaped. The tiger's enclosure is surrounded by a 15-foot-wide moat and 20-foot-high walls, and the big cat did not leave through an open door, he said.

"There was no way out through the door," Jenkins said. "The animal appears to have climbed or otherwise leaped out of the enclosure."

The man who was mauled to death was found right outside the enclosure. The other two men were found approximately 300 yards away. The tiger had attacked one man and was in the process of attacking him a second time when the authorities shot the tiger dead.

We decided to research how far tigers are known to be able to leap. From the American Museum of Natural History:

No animal fires our imaginations like the tiger -- and for good reason. Tigers are the largest of the big cats. They are incredibly powerful predators: Bengal tigers can bring down wild cattle weighing a ton or more. They are as agile as they are strong: tigers can leap more than 30 feet (9 m) in a single bound, climb trees, and swim for miles. And in their forest habitats, they can disappear in an instant, melting soundlessly into the brush. "When you see a tiger," says Indian biologist Ullas Karanth, "it is always like a dream."

More on Siberian tigers from the National Geographic:

Siberian (or Amur) tigers are the world's largest cats. They live primarily in eastern Russia's birch forests, though some exist in China and North Korea. There are an estimated 400 to 500 Siberian tigers living in the wild, and recent studies suggest that these numbers are stable.

Size: 10.75 ft (3.3 m)
Weight: 660 lbs (300 kg)
Protection status: Endangered



This short video of a tiger attack is a graphic example of the giant cat's prowess.

We did the math. Tiger's can leap up to 30 ft. in one bound. The zoo's moat is 15 ft. wide. The wall of the enclosure is 20 ft. tall. Tatiana was a Siberian tiger, the largest of the world's cats.

From an earlier DBKP story, DBKP: Horror at San Francisco Zoo, it was revealed that Tatiana had attacked a zookeeper, severely mauling the woman, chewing part of her arm off. The zoo spent $250,00 reinforcing the feeding area. The zoo reopened the big cat exhibit in September.

In this case, those who designed and approved the big cat enclosure may have underestimated the sheer power of these beautiful but extremely dangerous animals. One man and one Siberian tiger are dead. Two men are injured.

A deadly lesson learned.

By LBG
Image [img1.jurko.net]



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Horror at San Francisco Zoo: Tiger Escapes, One Person Mauled to Death

Sumatran Tiger at San Francisco Zoo

In a story from the AP*, the San Francisco Zoo was evacuated today after four tigers escaped their enclosure, killing one person and injuring two others. One tiger was shot and the others captured.

Tiger Enclosure at San Francisco Zoo [sanfran.jpg]

No word yet as to how the tigers were able to get out of their enclosure. No information as to the identity of the victim.

Developing---

More from KTVU:

Authorities said they got a 911 call at 5:17 p.m. reporting that at least one tiger had broken loose from its cage and was prowling the grounds. Heavily armed police officers confronted the tiger inside the Terrace Cafe, killing it as it attacked a man. Three other tigers were found on the grounds and returned to their cages.

San Francisco Fire Department Lt. Ken Smith said at least one had been killed. A critically injured man who had been mauled in the face was treated by emergency workers inside the cafe. Another iman -- apparently the brother of the other injured man -- was also being treated at San Francisco General Hospital.

Still no word on as to how the tigers were able to escape their enclosure.

Update:

According to a story by UPI on September 7, the zoo had reopened its tiger and lion exhibit after spending $250,000 in safety upgrades to the "dining hall" area. A zookeeper filed a lawsuit alleging that better security could have prevented an attack by a Siberian tiger back in December.

The tiger severely injured Lori Komejan when it managed to tear away the tendon tissue on her right arm.

According to the UPI story the zoo had three Sumatran and two Siberian tigers.

By LBG
Sources - Please note, we went back on Jan. 10 to review this story and found the original AP, link had been rerouted. We found another source which had the original AP story at Boston.com.




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Quotes: DBKP Library of Quote Stories

Don King, Hillary Clinton, John Edwards Love Child Scandal, Louis Farrakhan, William F. Buckley, Vicki Iseman-John McCain Affair, Fidel Castro, Ayatollah Khomeini, Valentine's Day, Mahmoud Amadinejad, John McCain, Ron Paul, SF Zoo Tiger Attack, Christmas, Most Outrageous Quotes 2007, Bill Clinton, Dennis Kucinich, Megan Meier MySpace Suicide

DBKP Library Stories and Videos of Quotes by people, both famous and otherwise, in the the news. 22 stories and counting.

UPDATED: March 24, 2008 * Don King: 13 Quotes Without Any Trickeration * Louis Farrakhan: Twenty Controversial Quotes * William F. Buckley: 22 Moments from a Fully-Lived Life * William F. Buckley Jr.: Ten Quotes to Remember Him By * Vicki Iseman-John McCain: 25 McCain-Iseman Affair Quotes * Fidel Castro: Fifteen Memorable Quotes * Ayatollah Khomeini: Ten Quotes by the Father of the Islamic Republic of Iran * Video: 7 Hillary Clinton Quotes * Valentine's Day: 30 Love Quotes * Mahmoud’s Mission: 20 Quotes on the Coming Ahmadinejad Apocalypse * John McCain: Thirty Quotes from the Conservative Candidate Seven Ron Paul Quotes from the Denver Rally * Ron Paul Round-Up: Maine Caucuses, Denver Speech, WV Convention and Super Tuesday * SF Zoo Tiger Attack: 30 Memorable Quotes * 27 Most Outrageous Quotes of 2007 * Christmas: 52 Christmas Quotes * John Edwards Love Child Scandal: 30 Quotes * Seven Hillary Clinton Iowa Quotes * Bill Clinton: 1992-2000 In His Own Words * Hillary For Dummies: Ten Hillary Clinton Quotes on the Issues * Megan Meier MySpace Suicide: Thirty Memorable Quotes * 12 All-time Great Dennis Kucinich Quotes To Start Your Morning Right * Our Man Mahmoud: Ten Ahmadinejad Quotes to Watch a Coming Holocaust By

by Mondoreb
image: dermanetwork
Source: DBKP


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